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IQBAL.LATIF

Searching the purpose of our existence and where do we end up?
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Are despots better for nations trapped in the Age of Ignorance?

Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:10 AM EST
egypt, islam, world-news, revolutions, shariah, spring-arab
By iqbal.latif

Fashion Catwalk on the Great Wall of China.

Secular despots of China have at least the wisdom of freedom of action by its populace. They are not bent to import medieval thoughts.

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An interesting exchange: 

Iqbal Latif: Emperors who had unbridled power created the most stunning buildings and monuments of the world. The Sphinx and The Great Wall of China are products of despotic rules.  The first emperor of China, Ch’in Shih Huang Ti, built the Great Wall of China. He built the Great Wall because he was frightened of “the barbarians” attacking him from the north. The Great Wall is often called “the longest cemetery in the world.” It got that name because so many thousands of workers died beneath the huge gray stones. Ch’in Shih Huang Ti slept in a different palace every night, he was sure his enemies would try to kill him if they knew where he would spend the night.  

Haussmannian boulevards of Paris are the conception of Napoleonic decrees. Elected president of the Republic of France in 1848, Napoléon III became emperor on 2 December 1852. Under his new rank, Napoléon III decided to modernize Paris after seeing London, a city transformed by the Industrial Revolution, which offered large public parks and a complete sewer system. Inspired by Rambuteau's ideas, and aware of social issues, he wished to improve the housing conditions of the lower class; in some neighbourhoods, the population density reached numbers of 100,000 people/km2 (250,000 people/sq. mile) in conditions of very poor sanitation. The goal was also for public authority to better control a capital where several regimes had been overthrown since 1789. Some real-estate owners demanded large, straight avenues to help troops manoeuvre.*

It seems that within the evil of despotism paradoxically lies the good of the general and commons; the world heritage would have been poorer without these despots. The most beautiful and incredible gift of love is the monument Taj Mahal in India. Built by Emperor Shahjahan as a memorial to his wife it stands as the emblem of the eternal love story. Work on the Taj Mahal began in 1634 and continued for almost 22 years and required the labor of 20,000 slaves from all over India and Central Asia.

It is ironic that we infrequently bear in mind the blood and tears of those who built these monuments. Take the example of Taj Mahal: for the untold thousands who laboured on it, Emperor Shah Jahan didn't even have the magnanimity to dedicate the Taj Mahal to, say, "all the lovers of Hindustan," or something similarly inclusive.

The poet Sahir Ludhianvi, speaking for the masses, famously said of the Taj:

"Ik shahanshah ney daulat ka sahaara ley kar
Ham ghareebon kee mohabbat ka uraaya hai mazaaq"

(An emperor relying so on his wealth / Has ridiculed the loves of the poor like us)

Fast forward: From these despots my thoughts moved on to on how this Arab spring will pan out, where most despots have been removed. A passing flickering thought emerges may be benevolent despots were good? Chaos is must in a post revolutionist period but how long that chaos will exist is the question. The minds of faithful  are  trapped in an era based on  rule of Allah that may lead to more conflict. Is this the sign of Liberation? No

The education of pluralism and sanctity of vote, the whole Muslim world of 1.2 billion will look at this freedom and its aftermath very carefully. If freedom and liberty succeeds the future of the world will see the hold of political Islam decreasing on the faithful; if this fails, all hell will break loose. Stagnation of mind destroys the balance of humanity.

MH:

If you let democracy (the way democracy as it is envisioned today by the so-called "intellectuals" at universities-- see below) take over the lowest common denominator wins; food, sex, alcohol, and drugs on welfare. All entitlements and demands. Nobody to do the work. Eventually after breakdown people start wishing and longing for a strongman and voila.

It cycles. Napoleon took over after the degeneration of the revolution. Stalin took over after years of chaos and killing. Hitler took over because of hyperinflation, feelings of having been cheated and humiliated.

What we have is not democracy; it is more like demogoguery. Illiterate people at the universities bribe the population and rile up the illiterate masses to vote in strange directions.

We will never have the kind of system where people are like molecules of water-- all indistinguishable-- creating some "mythical" (and totally incoherent and undefined mystical "equality"). All living systems (e.g. organisms) are hierarchical; they are comprised of organs. One organ rules the organism. If societies are like organisms, it should be clear that societies are not like buckets of water or containers of air (where the constituent parts are "equal".)

It's time to halt the demogoguery (where tens of millions of people are learning to read, write, and give speeches); and start teaching reality.

Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra
German philosopher (1844 - 1900)

''One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing star.''

Iqbal Latif:

MH - ‎@Hitler took over because of hyperinflation, feelings of having been cheated and humiliated.

I agree but I find that the cancer of societies is deep-rooted amongst their philosophers and holy scriptures.

German Protestantism, well organized universities and a Jewish citizenry devoted to German high culture all played their role. How all that ended in Hitler is one of the questions of historiography. Hitler did not appear in vacuum; nations’ philosophers are responsible for the decay. G. W. F. Hegel (1770-1831) who occupied an important position in the intellectual life of the 19thcentury; the philosophical thought of Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860); H. von Treitschke (1834-96) who was a vigorous spokesman for German political aspirations. The thinker who exerted the greatest influence of this period was Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900). He had been a disciple of Schopenhauer and a friend of Wagner; but he developed his own theory of "superman," which was his special contribution to German aspirations. This thesis was chronicled in "Also Sprach Zarathustra," his masterpiece. His was a call to self-assertion, to dominance through the will-to-power.

The founder of the modern racialist school, of the teachings to which the Germans have given practical effect, was a Frenchman, Count Arthur de Gobineau (1816-1882). His most influential book was "The Inequality of Human Races." Adolf Hitler always declared of National Socialism that "it is even more than a religion; it is the will to make mankind anew." In "The Testament of Adolf Hitler" (1951) we find the words: "National Socialism is essentially a religious movement and faith. The Germanic or Aryan world of ideas, both political and religious, will go out as a sacred Gospel to heal mankind."

Houston Stewart Chamberlain wrote at the end of the last century:

"In the want of a true religion that has sprung from, and is compatible with, our own individuality, I see the greatest danger for the future of the Teuton. . . . A race so profoundly and inwardly religious (as the Teutons) is unknown to history. . . . The German stands apart and waits for a God to descend once more from heaven." Fichte, the German philosopher, had said in the previous century that one day the world would be healed by the German spirit.

"The God has indeed come down from heaven, and his Name is Adolf Hitler. His Spirit, eternal and triumphant, marches on with and leads his disciples and followers throughout the world, in judgment and destruction of the old order, and in inspiration towards the building of the new world system."

Political Islam poses a similar challenge to the billion faithful; it promises them a dominance that is granted by the will of Allah. This preoccupation of sacred domination can lead to clash of faithful with those who believe that such a though is crap.

Egypt's tryst with its destiny enters a new phase with an election. I cannot overlook to underplay the tragedy of sorts and choices that Egyptians face. Two choices are available for them: a secular, freedom-oriented society or the road that leads the 'sovereignty of Allah' through 'Qaradawi alley! '

Egypt does not have to look far out for lessons from contemporary history, a whole nation of 40 million in 1979 traversed a similar failed dream through dominion of Velayat al Faqih under leadership of Imam Khomeini. Velayat-i-faqih a post-Age-of-Occultation theory in Shi'a Islam holds that Islam gives a faqih (Islamic jurist) or fuqaha (jurists) custodianship, divine providence or dictatorship over people. Islamic jurist dictatorship over people terribly failed and Egypt should know that a similar fate awaits them. Arab spring needs to learn from the rich Iranian experience of the only extraordinary Middle Eastern revolution of 1979 the Enghelābe Eslāmi unique in the sense that it defied the customary causes of revolution defeat at war, a financial crisis, peasant rebellion, or disgruntled military!

MH: Iqbal: You forgot Darwin, and Spencer!

Progressives on both sides of the Atlantic believed inferiority of certain peoples and superiority of others. It came from both Darwin and Spencer. Of course Nietzsche had a hand in it (Thus Spoke Zarathustra). It was about a fantasy version of evolution.

I would also agree that much of this degeneration came from philosophers.

BTW, today most people in arts etc remember only those monuments and think they are magnificent. If Obama today decided to carve the Rockies to create some fantastic monuments for future generations, the same artists would start screaming bloody murder because they would want to money to be either given to them (support the arts) or given to the poor in the slums.

Do they remember the Romans, who did a lot for the masses or the Greeks who gave a lot of speeches?

Do they applaud China for having produced massive amounts of housing, and sufficient food (instead of mass starvation of Mao's days) or do they start screaming about "human rights". The Leftirati were nowhere to be heard when the USSR was having its heyday; they were all suppressing news of large scale famines and were supporting the USSR. Do they remember the massive housing (so called "Stalinist architectures") or do they hate them because they do not look artsy (no Picasso, no Dali, nowhere to hang the beads...)

IL-Every few years the revolution seekers in the crescent of Islam roar and deliver a mouse-like revolution; the net result of 33 years of post revolution is that pathetic Ahmeidnajad has replaced the despotic Shah ultimately; Nasser republic to uproot King Farooq resulted in Nasserite-Sadat-Mubarak dynasty of despots. The least democratic are the loudest of the Republics from Jumhoriya Libya to Republic of Egypt. Now the removal Mubarak dynasty of despots will bring more Shari-ah, not less.

Nile feeds Egypt.

This is no time for dogma or ideology to be preferred over information, knowledge and modernisation of ideas. It will be ideas that will fill empty stomachs. Nile runs at its optimum capacity to increase yields proportionate to population increases; it is war of ideas not number of prayers. In Egypt this is the time to support the egalitarianism and secularism that ensures equal opportunity to all segments of the social order.

What is the point of a revolution if it brings you down in every respect – politically, socially, economically, intellectually? Iran is the most apt comparable example, as it became the weakest power post revolution, like the last falling domino. Freedom without maturity results in mayhem. Egypt, Libya, Syrians and Tunisia have to put their collective houses in order as soon as possible. They have to get out of rhetoric and move on to the task of cohesive building of the nation. The time to flirt with the likes of Qaradawi is a bad sign emerging from Egypt. No revolution process would be completed if the Middle East is not ready to break its chains from ideological underpinnings of political Islam; this 'Dechristianisation' is the most important factor to consider. Liberals' experiences of Iran should be eye-opening.

The most totalitarian of states have the most beautiful of the avenues named as Constitution Avenues; where freedom is a sparse measure Freedom Squares are common.

Hypocrisy and double standards are part of this cat and mouse game of freedom and democracy; lot of systems need to be abrogated; lot of entrenched behaviours that are legitimised as inscribed by the will of Allah will have to re-thought for a renaissance to unfurl its banners across the crescent of Islam.

The strong role of religion in a society like Egypt, Libya will only result in more chains on free thought with the dawn of new revolutions. Until the true freedom from dogma emerges, where religion is separated from the daily life and the concept of Allah-led domination of the world is buried; a self-righteous and sanctimonious revolution will only bring in more debauched thoughts that will be wretchedly unsuccessful.

All insurrections should fetch more free will and more prosperity, on that count the contradiction of following a 1400-year-old tradition and still live in a modern society at the cusp of a new age of knowledge is destructive for any nation; look at the the Iranian revolution on its death bed, lending itself to a colossal implosion. De-Christianisation of Egypt and Iran is a necessity for any liberty to ensue.

It looks like unless people complete the path of self destructive prophesies, as promised in their scriptures, the revolution will only lead them to more segregation and more internecine behaviour.

A black hole in the shape of a 1400-year-old mindset has obsessed the intellectual emancipation of recently freed nations like Egypt and Libya. The minds of the Faithful  are  trapped in an era based on  rule of Allah that may lead to more conflict. Is this the sign of Liberation? No.

 


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  • Public Discussion (8)
iqbal.latif

Nile feeds Egypt.

The harnessing of forces of nature in designed environment through our intelligence produced the productivity boast that helped human population and productivity stagnated since last two millenniums to jump exponentially. ( Human population was 210m in around 100 AD and until 1000 AD increased to 270m from 1000 AD to 1800 AD the population increased to 900 m but after that in 200 years we are 7 billion and much better off)

Revolutions only succeed when a society is able to embrace the new realities, if the society chooses to live in space of decadence and old thought any revolution will only be a tool to accelerate its descent to ignominy and disasters. Iranian Islamic revolution is one great example of that permanent decline where 5000 year old cradle of civilisation lost its significance and primary important status of intellectual greatness to some ruffians and radical louts.

  • 6 votes
Reply#1 - Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:30 AM EST
ryoushi12

What the hell was that?

A bigger load of random trivia and unrelated facts I've never seen.

And quite a few outright false statements, such as Hitler came to power in Germany during the period of hyperinflation - catagorically FALSE. Germany's hyperinflation period ran from the 1922 thru 1923, and was the ONLY response the German government had to the French/Belgian occupation of the Rhineland, which they were doing to force higher reparations out of the Germans. It was at the end of this the Hitler staged his Beerhall Putsch, which resulted in an eight month prison sentence for "treason", during which Hitler wrote Mein Kampf. Hitler ACTUALLY came to power in part in 1933, during the Great Depression (the very opposite of hyperinflation), and his party actually LOST ground in the last more or less free election after he became chancelor and before Hndenburg died in 1934, allowing Hitler to stage, under the infamous Enabling Act, his "legal" takeover of the presidency of Germany and become absolute dictator.

Your FACTUAL and COHERENT history lesson for the day.

  • 1 vote
#1.1 - Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:11 AM EST
iqbal.latifDeleted
iqbal.latif

This was a response from MH not from me. The dialogue is about two sides that had different views.

  • 5 votes
#1.3 - Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:48 AM EST
Shuklack

I liked it, but I think MH had trouble staying on track.

  • 6 votes
#1.4 - Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:31 AM EST
D.Warne

Hndenburg died in 1934, allowing Hitler to stage, under the infamous Enabling Act, his "legal" takeover of the presidency of Germany and become absolute dictator.Your FACTUAL and COHERENT history lesson for the day.

Concept of "The Inequality of Human Races" gave birth to racialist school of Nazis and Hitler. Hindenburg death and hyperinflation were not the cause of the rise of Nazism. The evil existed in the falsehood of supremacy of German nation, a concept injected arduously for eons by the German philosophers. The essential circumstances required in relation to the rise of Hitler were entrenched far deeper in the German psyche.

German Protestantism, well organized universities and a Jewish citizenry devoted to German high culture all played their role. How all that ended in Hitler is one of the questions of historiography. Hitler did not appear in vacuum; nations' philosophers are responsible for the decay. G. W. F. Hegel (1770-1831) who occupied an important position in the intellectual life of the 19thcentury; the philosophical thought of Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860); H. von Treitschke (1834-96) who was a vigorous spokesman for German political aspirations. The thinker who exerted the greatest influence of this period was Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900).

Ike have highlighted all that in refutation to MH assertion of 'hyperinflation.' He has highlighted Friedrich Nietzsche, who wrote in 'Thus Spoke Zarathustra.' ''One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing star.''

The thesis chronicled in 'Zarathustra' is considered his masterpiece. His was the call to self-assertion, to dominance through the will-to-power. I agree with Ike views on the intellectual historical background that led to the rise of Nazism:

The founder of the modern racialist school, of the teachings to which the Germans have given practical effect, was a Frenchman, Count Arthur de Gobineau (1816-1882). His most influential book was "The Inequality of Human Races." Adolf Hitler always declared of National Socialism that "it is even more than a religion; it is the will to make mankind anew." In "The Testament of Adolf Hitler" (1951) we find the words: "National Socialism is essentially a religious movement and faith. The Germanic or Aryan world of ideas, both political and religious, will go out as a sacred Gospel to heal mankind."

Houston Stewart Chamberlain wrote at the end of the last century:

"In the want of a true religion that has sprung from, and is compatible with, our own individuality, I see the greatest danger for the future of the Teuton. . . . A race so profoundly and inwardly religious (as the Teutons) is unknown to history. . . . The German stands apart and waits for a God to descend once more from heaven." Fichte, the German philosopher, had said in the previous century that one day the world would be healed by the German spirit.

"The God has indeed come down from heaven, and his Name is Adolf Hitler. His Spirit, eternal and triumphant, marches on with and leads his disciples and followers throughout the world, in judgment and destruction of the old order, and in inspiration towards the building of the new world system."

  • 5 votes
#1.5 - Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:09 PM EST
Reply
iqbal.latif

My views on these despots like Hitler are here:http://iqballatif.newsvine.com/_news/2011/11/29/9090049-whitewash-of-a-mini-genocide

  • 5 votes
Reply#2 - Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:47 AM EST
hugh b

no

  • 4 votes
Reply#3 - Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:09 AM EST
Luther28

Hugh, that was my first thought also. But as our congress has been trapped in the "Age of Ignorance" for over ten years, perhaps the concept of a benevolent despot just may smarten them up.

Before you all flay my flesh, this is a tongue in cheek comment.

  • 1 vote
#3.1 - Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:21 AM EST
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