Lessons from 'The School of Athens!' that Qom and Al-Azhar need to learn

Hi, this is another great piece of erudite write ups from Dr. Ike Latif.

@The decline of the Golden Age of Greece (or Greek Renaissance) began with the end of the Peloponnesean War!

Ike on the decline of the golden age of Islam:

Why the clergy has made our heroes our heretics?

by Iqbal Latif on Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:39 AM PST

Though it is generally believed that Greco-Rome is the derivation of civilization, the fact is it was the Iranian civilization that was much older than that of Rome and was at par with Greece in its richness, and that Iran made no less contribution to the historical and cultural progress of the entire world. It was the Arabs' integration of cradles of eastern civilisations that spewed elite luminaries responsible for the enlightenment of an era.

The following from Saadi could not have come from intellectual vacuum of minds; it was the embodiment of thousands of years of rich culture with rationalist and logical Hellenistic thoughts combined with the liberty to seek new frontiers of knowledge that led Saadi to say: The sons of Adam are limbs of one another having been created of one essence. When the calamity of time afflicts one limb, the other limbs cannot remain at rest.

When someone talks about progress of a society I will ask them where their philosophers, thinkers and writers are; why are they not questioning; where is enquiry sitting on the list of their priorities. If one doesn't openly question the root of ills of our society, he becomes part of the ill. What is fossilisation of mind? It is the worst ailment that affects most of us, but we rarely go to any specialist to seek help.

Our clergy and soothsayers become our authority to seek remedies from malady of thoughts; they straitjacket us into thousands of years-old hold of incoherent fables and ask us to follow those for eternal nirvana; we create our own divisions of man based on antiquated ideas from scriptures, though it is just a matter of time we all as humans shall be one.

Today we need to talk about precise, surgical operations that are needed to cleanse this rampant puritanical streak of self- righteousness.

It is not Islam-phobia to question cause and effects of delay in the emergence of a renaissance and actions to overhaul antediluvian thinking processes; it is only through volte-face and restructuring that we will be able to eradicate from the organic body of 'political Islam' tentacles of its enormous fanatic infrastructure.

We need our unwavering resolve to question and condemn the ills of lunatics and fringe killers who have taken upon themselves to make this earth heaven by making it hell for everyone.

Iranians have led the Golden age of Islamic renaissance, the greatest heroes of the Islamic renaissance emerged from the rich learned lands conquered by the desert army. Once again Iranians led the call of Enghelābe Eslāmi and now will lead the roll back.Our heroes are our heretics! One needs to look at the reasons why the entrenched clergy from the very beginning of Islam to present day has always frowned at any attempt of "enlightened moderation." Those who meditated science and logic came up with a lot of questions and those questions are more often than not nipped in the bud. Decline of the Islamic golden age was due to supremacy and ascendancy of dogma over rationalism – for example, the lack of separation between faith and reason – that is why the Muslim Arab world fell into scientific slumber just as the Christian world woke up. Internecine wars, infighting and murder of rationalism were the main causes for the decline of Islam.

It is often disputed why Muslims being 19.6% of the world's population, i.e. 2 billion, only have three Nobel laureates in Science and literature, whereas Jews being only 0.2% of the world's population, i.e. 14.1 million, have received 122 Nobel prizes in science, economics, medicine and literature.

There are many efforts now being considered for reforming the educational systems in the Middle East. One no cost reform would be to have students question professors and for professors to be prepared to defend their position

Any reform within educational systems of the Middle East has to go much further than just collegiate level institutions. It is necessary to mandate specific criteria be taught in every elementary and secondary school also.

The sad fact that only 1% of all the scientific papers annually come from Arab countries is shameful. And this can be directly traced to the unsupportable creed that is Isalm.

The Closing of the Muslim Mind

In about a two-hundred-year period (9th through the 11th centuries, A.D./C.E.), the intellectual ferment having to do with Islamic theological issues, and how to examine those issues, ripped through the Islamic world. On one side were those Islamic thinkers whose logical tools derived from Greek philosophy; The other side was made up of those who insisted that the Koran was eternal, and must be simply accepted without question. In fact, for this latter group, the very act of questioning was blasphemous--a capital crime.

Despite the Hellenistic intellectual outlook actually being supported and adopted by three Caliphs, the argument was eventually won by the literalists. It was reason versus power exercised by pure will. Reason lost, and the results are painfully still evident. Edmund Jimanez

Ike has been relentlessly writing about the cause of decline for a long time and is quoted as a reference, please read this:

Renaissance- cannot be tainted with colour of ideology; it cannot be 'Islamic or Christian.'

and here pointing the culprits in an encyclopedia :

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/6282265/Al-Ghazali Ref 30

The decline of the Golden Age of Greece (or Greek Renaissance) began with the end of the Peloponnesean War when the people of Athens became afraid, sought dogma,

Islam met a similar fate:

The Islamic world needs to look back to move forward

By Iqbal Latif

'One of the most revealing measures of the intellectual variety of the period ... was the frequency in Baghdad of public debates between members of opposing schools of thought. [For example, one] debate in 932 CE between ibn Yunis and al-Sarafi was on the relative merits of the sciences of logic and grammar ... sponsored by the Caliph's vizier ... the authorities were still willing to entertain a diversity of views at a time when the proponents of orthodoxy had become increasingly articulate and powerful ... the atmosphere ... was generally cosmopolitan. '

The memory of Classical Greece – a legacy of Alexander – had survived in parts of Syria and Iraq, amid Eastern Christianity and Zoroastrianism. In fact, the language of high culture and theology in Byzantine cities was Greek. The Syriac-speaking Christian scholars, in order to gain access to theological texts written in Alexandria and Antioch, studied Greek language. When the Umayyad caliph al-Malik made Arabic the official state language (end of eighth century) replacing Persian and Greek, it catalyzed translations of Greek texts into Arabic by the Eastern Christians.

In addition to scientific and medical texts, collections of moral aphorisms ascribed to Socrates, Solon, Hermes, and Pythagoras were the earliest works to be translated into Arabic. However, most translations – of scientific, philosophical and medical texts – were initiated by the Abbasid caliphs of Baghdad, especially al-Mamun. Partaking of this intellectual goldmine, al-Farabi emerged as the first significant philosopher in Islam.

The fall of Baghdad , the capital of the Islamic world, the Mongol capture was the culmination of a century of moral and intellectual decay from time when open-mindedness was replaced by debauchery and intolerance. The Mongol may have plunged the sword into the world of Islam but it was the Muslim rulers themselves, who expedited the implosion. The strength of any society is dependent on openness of society, once forbearance is replaced by bigotry and fanaticism and ingenuousness by extremist's ideas the decays expedites. From Mamun to Abbasid caliph, al-Muta'sim the decay was rather rapid so was the defeat by the Mongols.
The Islamic world today is capable of sublime creativity, truth and reason as its own history evidences. However as always Muslims have to take charge of their destiny and pierce through the recrimination to find the key to civilization renewal.

Truth, tolerance, responsibility and the primordial nature of love once again have to be the founding values of the Muslim world for a renaissance to once again come about. Al Farabi wrote Kitab al Musiqa patronising music later orthodox schools thought music as the destroyer of soul, a side of tracker of faith and disbanded it, making soul meaningless and devoured Muslim soul of its very soul. Contentment was considered wicked, one could only be joyful in heavens! The choices became too narrowed, for heavenly pleasure the worldly pleasures became empty, life came to rust, stagnation became part of the mind set. The decay once sets in takes innovation out of societies, it is the madness and rush for invention that creates societies to flourish.

Society is the name of living in totality of all facets of human life that includes erotica, music, art and culture. It is either all together that a free minds progresses within or it is devastatingly destructive intellectual black hole a society gets sucked in. Guardians of truth are always able to destroy efforts of enlightenment in name of sanctity of holy message and legislation of morality. The choices are free and clear either adapt to the heavenly bliss and wait for life after death or assume present life to new more accepatable and tolerable ways, one needs to achieve minuscule part of the heavenly deal here in this world. The day Muslims started postponing everything for `'life after death' the progress and enlightenment escaped pass them.

The hyper-orthodox may today need to closely look at the message of Shaykh al-Akbar Mohiyoddin Ibn 'Arabi, they consider him some what dangerous and chancy, but his message of love undoubtedly will shape the foundation of a innovative and a charitable version of thinking in the forthcoming Islamic societies.The future belongs to the great Ibn 'Arabi and Heretics like him, they were well ahead of their times but today the time of orthodoxy is dead and in new day their message of love and hope is the only hope. No 'Golden age' is possible without free minds and no renaissance shall ever materialises without Vince's and Bach's, lets rediscover our Kindi's and Ibn Arabi's.

http://globalpolitician.com/print.asp?id=2309

Ike has been relentlessly writing about the cause of decline for a long time and is quoted as a reference, please read this:...

An excellent article and the call for a New Renaissance unsurprisingly originates from Indonesia which has the benefit of a high literacy rate.

Unfortunately, outside of Indonesia @ 46-50% of all Muslims are functionally illiterate. Which goes back to my original statement of the need for better educational standards in the Middle East.

Frankly, just such standards and increased education and literacy goes counter to the perpetuation of Islam. For Islam, like all religions, doesn't thrive despite of ignorance, it thrives because of ignorance.

The Islamic education also seems focused on solving yesterday's problems, especially in mathematics. I know a teacher here in Egypt who has students who know every rule of geometry but who cannot solve the simplest geometrical problem.

It is sad but a compliment to the people of Iran that their rulers seem to fear most of all Rumi and Omar Khayyam. The Iranian love of poetry may help deliver them. There are in Egypt and in other countries authors like Aswany who are writing about social justice,

I will reproduce what Raat ki Raani had written as comments on one of his articles:

Once again, your thoughts and views on a complex subject astound. And yet again, some powerful quotes that deserve repeating. Like...

Freedom of minds and skill of intellect to 'think the unthinkable' is how humanity has progressed; when minds are incarcerated nothing endures.

The first and foremost challenge nations of Islam faces is freedom of intellectual enquiry, ability to ask the unthinkable and still be able to live in peace within a society is the ultimate hall mark of any efforts of kindling renaissance.

Fanaticism is an evil of a society that corrodes the elegance of any culture.

the separation of state from institutions of clergy is a must for any society to develop

A dark age within any civilization is characterized with dogmatic extremism that denies civil liberties, including freedom of religion and justice or the right to a fair trial. 'Golden age' on the other hand should be about the freedom of expression and availability of justice for the downtrodden.

Respect of life is the first sign of an educated mind, the most important creation of providence being subject to dynamite is a work of an evil soul, lets not mix it, any mind that plots to maim and kill has not evolved, it has remained stuck in medieval hatreds of the past.

I have no idea where you get the inspiration for hitting the nail on the head so aptly across so many of your articles. But whatever it is, please do not lose it. And continue to share it with us here on Newsvine. Thanks Ike.

Ike, we are all grateful for this 'fountain of knowledge' that keeps on divulging new angles, new thoughts and gems, please continues this flow. I also deeply admire your 'unquenchable thirst for knowledge.'

could not find this last night,it's sort of an explanation on the connection between religion and philosophy in paganism.

as the "pagan" concept that "pure thought" was of the Logos,and was the only G*d or deity ,divine revelation was inside the human head,it was man approaching G*d.

G*d within man.Knowledge was now "divine" true reasoned knowledge was your "light" your inner "contentment" or eternal certainty

Or as close as man can get to the divine.

Knowledge as G*d, divine thought, or the Logos became the word of G*d.

Christianity,found this pre-existing concept to it's advantage.

Jesus became to word of G*d,truth,pure "goodness" or your eternal salvation

The specific focus of ancient skepticism on belief becomes clearer once we consider a third concept that figures centrally in ancient discussions: criterion of truth. It is a core ancient intuition that, if we cannot identify an impression as true, we should hold back from making a truth-claim, believing anything, on the basis of it. The skeptics and their opponents discuss how one recognizes a true impression as true. Is there anything about impressions of truths that marks them as true? Are there some evident things (some kind of impressions), which can be used as standards or criteria, so that nothing is to be accepted as true if it is not in agreement with these evident things? The Stoics and Epicureans formulate theories that conceive of such criteria. The skeptics respond critically to their proposals. Accordingly, the conception of a criterion of truth assumes as central a role in ancient debates as does the notion of knowledge in modern discussions.

Discussion of the criterion of truth arguably also covers some of the ground that is later discussed in terms of certainty. The Stoics say that a particular kind of impression is the criterion of truth: the cognitive impression. Cognitive impressions make it clear through themselves that they reveal things precisely as they are. This notion is an ancestor to the later conception of clear and distinct impressions, and thus, to discussions of certainty.

Consider next the notion of doubt. Doubt is often considered the hallmark of skepticism. So how can it be that ancient skepticism is not about doubt? Insofar as ‘to doubt’ means no more than‘to call into question,’ the ancient skeptics might be described as doubting things. However, skeptical investigation as Sextus Empiricus describes it does not involve doubt (I shall focus here on Pyrrhonism; on Cicero's use ofdubitari, see Section 3.3). Skeptics find themselves struck by the discrepancies among impressions. This experience is described as turmoil. They aim to resolve this disturbance by settling what is true and what is false. But investigation leads them to suspension of judgment, which brings its own peace of mind (Outlines of Skepticism [= PH] 1.25–30). Where in this account should we locate doubt? Is the initial turmoil the ancient skeptic experiences a kind of doubt? Are the ancient skeptic's investigations a kind of doubting? Should we describe suspension of judgment as a kind of doubt? All three stages may resemble doubt, but they are also different. It seems best, then, to refrain from invoking the modern conception of doubt as at all fundamental in the reconstruction of ancient Greek skepticism.

Some of the distinctness of ancient skepticism lies in the fact that it is developed by philosophers who genuinely think of themselves as skeptics. In later epistemology, skepticism is largely construed from the outside. In particular, early modern skepticism is, for the most part, conceived by philosophers who aim to refute it. But ancient skepticism is explored by skeptics. “Skepsis”means investigation, and ancient skepticism is perhaps best described as a deep and persistent commitment to investigation.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/skepticism-ancient/

I will mention as well, that the Greeks had been exposed to the Septuagint for quite some time.

I don't know the full effect on Greek thought, But I believe it made the Irish "monotheistic Pagans"and that is the gift of the Jews that I acknowledge makes up part of my concept of G*d.

reveals the critical change that made western civilization possible. Within the matrix of ancient religions and philosophies, life was seen as part of an endless cycle of birth and death; time was like a wheel, spinning ceaselessly. Yet somehow, the ancient Jews began to see time differently. For them, time had a beginning and an end; it was a narrative, whose triumphant conclusion would come in the future. From this insight came a new conception of men and women as individuals with unique destinies--a conception that would inform the Declaration of Independence--and our hopeful belief in progress and the sense that tomorrow can be better than today.

the future of man changed with the Jewish concept of G*d. Neither the stars, nor the auguries reading the entrails of animals could predict the future any longer. The Jewish concept of G*d changed that. The future was, and is, the collective responsibility of individual humans. Who now make the future, by their actions in the present.

If any thing can happen with the Jewish concept of G*d, (life is not predetermined) We are not bound by fate, we are free ....liberated ...just as the Israelites were, when they crossed the red or reed, sea.

I would like to add this comment to the "Pantheon " of "pagan thought"

it's from a pretty smart, agnostic Jew. I Will take my knowledge where I find it, and be happy I have it,and not be concerned where I found it,or who had it first.just like the good little pagan I am.(LOL)

When he turned 50, Einstein granted an interview in which he was asked point-blank, do you believe in God? “I am not an atheist,” he began.

“The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn’t know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws.”

The most famous Einstein pronouncement on God came in the form of a telegram, in which he was asked to answer the question in 50 words or less. He did it in 32:

“I believe in Spinoza’s God, who reveals himself in the lawful harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and the doings of mankind.”

(These quotes are documented in Walter Isaacson’s excellent 2007 biography Einstein: His Life and Universe.)

http://allpurpose.newsvine.com/_news/2010/12/15/5655139-what-did-einstien-believe-about-god

talking about cross pollination of religious thought and philosophy.Irish Paganism has taken it all in,rejecting, or accepting, that which cannot be refuted using sceptical reasoning

At the hart of the philosophy of Irish Pagans, is belief that of all of the earths creations, all that is, but one, are creatures, and of all of God creatures. Only man is part of the divine, ( the human animal if you will) he has been given self awareness and a conscience.This Pagan sages taught, is part of the inner consciousness embedded in all of us.It's but fragments of the creator torn from "it's" being at the moment of our creation. (children of God) Irish Pagans believe each individual human to be a fragment of one heavenly being,dismembered by evil on earth, ( the realm of man) and robbed of the memory of it's divine origin.This teaching encodes the the idea that "God", only needs to be remembered,through a search of the acquired knowledge of mankind ( for we hold these truths to be self evident) that they can not be denied. Reason (in the human mind) is what brings man nearer to God, not ceremony, nor by blindly following a man made dogma.

Now if some of this sounds "Jewish" in nature ? The early Christians, who rewrote the Irish pagan bible (1100 AD), felt the same way?

So, they Christianized it. No one really knows what it originally said.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuatha_D%C3%A9_Danann

The translation of Tuatha Dé Danann as "peoples of the goddess Danu" is necessarily imprecise. Old Irish tuath (plural tuatha) means "people, tribe, nation"; and dé is the genitive case of día, "god, goddess, supernatural being, object of worship"^[1]

(they are often referred to simply as the Tuatha Dé,

children of G*d, in Irish Gaelic.

Now the name Tuath, is my family's ancestral village as well in Gaoth Dobhair. (home of the "Black Irish" ) but personally, I'm more of a chestnut brown.

1200 years before Christ ? or there abouts.The people of G*d (the Tuatha De') came to Ireland with the Gaelic language, a religious law,Brehon law and Jacob's pillow,or the stone of destiny. it (LiaFail) can be found in the British National museum.It is the coronation stone,still to this day,if I am not mistaken. Irish myth says Liafail, is underneath the hill of Tara.

a phrase also used to refer to the Israelites in early Irish Christian texts).^[2]

At this point in Irish history, being called "Jews", by Christians was not a term of endearment.(LOL)

here is a good site, it's more historical than religious. http://www.danann.org/temple.html

gospel of Mark (4) v 11-12 "And he said to them,Things are hidden only to be revealed,and made secret only to be brought to light,If any have ears to hear,let them hear".

Paganism attempts to unlock that mystery, through the pursuit of knowledge.Where as other civilization and cultures credit their ancestors as the source of their particular eternal wisdom.We Pagans are acutely aware, that just as animals are born with instincts,man and man alone,is born with an inherited wisdom (spark of the divine),and this wisdom lets man alone,(separate from the the other animals) ask why.

why we were born,why we live,and this and this alone, makes us part of the "divine".